What do you think is "true norwegian BM" and...

Posted By Dirk Diggler 3/8/2006 3:51:02 PM
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Dirk Diggler
 Posted 3/8/2006 3:51:02 PM
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Hello, everybody!

I`m currently writing parts of my bachelordegree-paper about how/if " (true) norwegian black metal" can represent the norwegian way of living, our past(as vikings/odinists) and myths/folktales", and as a part of this, I would like to ask YOU what you define as typical norwegian and what you relate to when you hear "norwegian black metal" such as Emperor, Darkthrone, Windir, Gorgoroth, Burzum or any band you will put in that category.

I doesn`t matter what country you come from, what your age is or if you`re a die-hard fan or not, but that you can reflect a bit and post a serious answer. (which will be highly appreciated!)

If you don`t want to post here, you can also e-mail me.

Cheers!
Durloth
 Posted 3/9/2006 10:02:50 AM
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It depends on what you mean by "true Norwegian BM". The bands usually associated with the term, are the MB pioneers like Mayhem, Emperor and Gorgoroth. Those bands doesn`t represent Norwegian traditions or the "spirit" of the people very well.

The albums I think does this best are Ulvers "Bergtatt" and the two first Windir albums. (There are a shitload of other records I could have mentioned that uses folk-tunes or have traditional or historical lyrics, but these are IMO the best ones).

Bergtatt was my first real BM love, as when hearing it I felt it completely embodied the feeling of the traditional faerytales I grew up with as almost a alternative reality. It really gave me the feeling I had as a kid, sitting by the fireplace of my grandmothers cottage in the middle of the dark scary woods, with my head full of trolls and goblins.
Windir on the other hand can almost be seen as historical documents, as Valfar got his lyrics straight out of local history and even got his melodies from old Norwegian psalms and such.
Kaiser86
 Posted 3/9/2006 1:47:57 PM
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From what I can see, as such it isn't BM that reflects the Norsk way of life. It's more like BM influenced the way of life. I really believe that if it wasn't for the BM scene in Norway, there wouldn't be so many metalheads in Norway, no Body Map on Karl Johan, no Wolf's Lair in Youngstorget, and no inverted crosses sold on the street market in broad daylight, no Darkthrone single and album in the Norwegian charts (link1, link2), no Ulver and Nile in the bestseller section at Platekompaniet, and more importantly no Inferno Festival or Hole in the Sky. It could be that these things would have entered the Norwegian scene anyway, but I'm sure that not of this magnitude, and not at this speed.

Regarding the reflection of past culture, many early BM bands and characters faught to bring back the pagan and viking values, in the process fighting to destroy the very culture that destroyed the past: Christianity. This was said by Varg, who is one of the key character in the scene. In fact that was the prime motivation behind the church arsons. One could also notice many BM musicians wearing mjollnir pendants.



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Durloth
 Posted 3/10/2006 2:04:53 PM
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Now, this discussion is getting a little bigger at the Scream Forum, but I disagree with the last post.
If I didn`t feel that BM reflected my life and traditions in some ways, I might as well listen to gangsta rap. It might have to do with my upbringing (a father who read Tolkien to me, before I got old enough to read myself and lots of time spent in my grandmothers house that was filled with faeritales, running around in the woods with my own knife, before I could tie my own shoelaces. ((I read on the S-forum that you are from Bodø, so you might know Gildeskål, where I spent much of my younger years))

Anyhow, I never fell for metal, before I found Ulver and such bands that I really felt was a reflection me and my romantic remembrance of a "real Norwegian upbringing".
Dirk Diggler
 Posted 3/10/2006 3:51:24 PM
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Thanks for all the replies! That some of you disagree with eachother and connect differently to BM is just great. More opinions, more to discuss.

EIRIK: I`m studying at Høgskolen i Bodø in my third year, but moving back to my "home" in Lier/Drammen in the summer. Coming down in the easter for Inferno, though. Smile I`m acutally going to Gildeskål in a few weeks, for the first time. Also have some friends down in Ørnes that I`ll visit.

....now, I`ll head over to Scream.no to see what`s kickin`...

Kaiser86
 Posted 3/10/2006 4:54:41 PM
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I do agree with you Eirik to some extent, but you're giving me a "personal upbringing" point of view. I think one has to see why and how BM is what it is, and sound like it sounds. Why the image. I don't agree that BM was influenced by Norwegian culture as such because of the corpsepaint for example. Started off from Kiss (American), and Alice Cooper (American), but mainly influenced by King Diamond (Danish), Hellhammer (Swiss), and Sarcofago (Brazilian). Musically, the influences were Hellhammer and Celtic Frost (Swiss), Mercyful Fate (Danish), Venom (English), Bathory (Swedish) etc etc. All 80s bands. A small reminder that one of the earliest Norwegian BM full-length albums is Darkthrone's "A Blaze in the Northern Sky" in 91, with what is nowadays considered a benchmark in BM: Mayhem's De Mysteriis ..., only out in 1994.
So as you can see the influences are far from Norwegian. Hell many were influenced by Tolkien's books....an English writer teaching English language at the Universtiy of Oxford (if I'm not mistaken, as he used o teach my mum's uncle).
What norwegian BM added was the nationalistic aspect, taken from Bathory's Viking themes and amalgamating them to the Norwegian past. Which brings me back to the whole anti-Xtian/pro-Heathen theme, the church arsons, and the whole infamous history of early Norwegian BM.
One could come up with the idea that "Swedish and Norwegian cultures are closely tied", but then we would be talking about SCANDINAVIAN BM not Norwegian.




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Kaiser86
 Posted 3/10/2006 4:56:21 PM
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Oh and BDW, you should speak to Gro and LArs maybe they fix something maybe you get a backstage pass to interview some ppl there. Emperor are one of the Earliest bands in Norsk BM. And Nocturno Culto!



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Durloth
 Posted 3/11/2006 9:32:09 AM
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I totally agree, concerning "second wave" bands like Darkthrone, Mayhem etc. But in the early nineties many new bands like Ulver, Borknagar, Satyricon, Enslaved, Fenriz`s and Satyrs` sideprojects and later bands like Windir, Àsmegin, Mistur, Angurvadel, Nagelfar (N) and a load "viking metal" (I loathe that term) like Twin Obcenity, Einherjer started a new branch of BM, less influenced by the old school.

Being a Norwegian, I guess I have to see this question through my own eyes, because that is the only way I can give a relevant ansver. When looking at the Norwegian society (the sum of it`s individuals, not the individuals themselves) as a whole, I don`t thing BM reflects anything other than that we have a fairly good music school system giving a large part of the nations kids the chance to learn to play an instrument and rather cheap guitars.
We are really not that grim, and the whole elitist individual, rising above the grey masses of social democracy, it probably a thing every fourteen years old boy plays with, but most people outgrows it when stey have lived a little and seen that it`s a way everybody feels, you just those special few. (I could have been more eloquent, but my english isn`t too elegant. I hope you guys catch my drift though...)
Dirk Diggler
 Posted 3/13/2006 12:54:45 PM
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Kaiser86 (10.03.2006)
Oh and BDW, you should speak to Gro and Lars maybe they fix something maybe you get a backstage pass to interview some ppl there. Emperor are one of the Earliest bands in Norsk BM. And Nocturno Culto!

I`ve thought about it, but mostly considered e-mails as the best form of interview since I want it in writing and it gives object more time to reflect, than sitting in a crowded backstage area. But I might give that a go since you mention it.

Lumsk is also playing in Bodø soon, so I might try to hook up with them.

Izhag
 Posted 3/28/2006 11:13:06 PM
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Lumsk is shit - and they are a lot of pompous pricks. The only two founding members left in the band, were kicked because they wanted to go back to the folk music and heavy aspect of the bands heritage - the others wanted a more prog, technical aproach.

Go figure - that aint so norwegian is it?

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